Topic: [BUR | REDO | ANY FEEDBACK APPRECIATED] Sound/Loud Sound Warning

Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions

dfY6C

Privileged

The bulk update request #620 is pending approval.

create alias audio_warning (0) -> sound_warning (105)
create alias ear_rape (0) -> loud_sound_warning (3)
create alias music_warning (0) -> music (74)
create alias volume_warning (0) -> loud_sound_warning (3)
create implication loud_sound_warning (3) -> sound (232)

ORIGINAL Reason: sound_warning is somewhat unique in that it's a meta tag that's intended to go into the artist category on e621 so that it's more noticeable on the top of the tag list as an actual warning to users. Obviously, our equivalent is director but the tag category on sound_warning is locked so that's the main purpose this BUR serves. These are effectively all ports from e621, with the director category replacing artist in this case. There may be mistagged posts with this tag that need to be fixed, as sound_warning is strictly meant for videos with sudden loud noises, not generally normalized audio levels that posts with only sound should have.

EDIT: Changed and aliased sound_warning to loud_sound_warning to make the intent more obvious and hopefully decrease potential mistagging. Because this tag is new and isn't locked, I was able to set it to a director tag already.

EDIT 2: The BUR as it was written before was shown to be a mixed bag. I've written a new proposal for this in the replies below based on a discussion I had on the Discord server and I would appreciate any other feedback on the changes made.

Updated

dfY6C

Privileged

flowersylveon said:
music_warning -> loud_sound_warning
no

What else should be there then, or should it be removed? sound_warning on e621 has that alias active right now and the function for sound_warning is exactly that loud sound warning as written on their wiki.

Updated

kalethOrebiter

Privileged

flowersylveon said:
music_warning -> loud_sound_warning
no

you'll have to be a tad more specific. I agree with dfY6c here, warning tags are kinda weird and unclear. Some people use sound them for interchangeably with sound_warning, the aim is to make the tags clearer.

unless you want a loud_music_warning ?

FlowerSylveon

Privileged

music_warning -> music
would be more correct i believe

music itself serving as "warning" doesn't quite make much sense and can just be same as music
being paired with sound_warning then makes sense

dfY6C

Privileged

Clearly, this BUR needs a rework, so I want some opinions on a few proposals/thoughts here:

1. sound_warning and loud_sound_warning can co-exist as separate tags. After a bit of back and forth on Discord, Bahufaru's take (with at least Jello saying this makes sense as well) is that both tags could be used instead of us aliasing them together, with sound_warning being for "content you wouldn't want to unexpectedly play out loud in public due to the content of it" and loud_sound_warning being "specifically for volume/overdrive, agnostic of content." I don't think this is a bad idea, it certainly gives us a much better definition of the base sound_warning tag in my opinion, considering the wording of the tag by itself doesn't really imply anything with loudness. People who are "mistagging" sound_warning have effectively been using this tag for that purpose already, so I think this is generally what people WANT that tag to be defined as. The original e621 wiki definition of loudness is just not good enough to define the tag like this, and clearly feels like a better fit for loud_sound_warning instead.

2. Tag category. As it stands on e6*, the sound_warning tag is a meta tag that's intended to go into the artist/director category to "stand out" so that it can potentially serve better as a warning to users. With our potential new definition being a warning for sound playing in public, I was thinking if someone is in public then they're likely on a phone and won't even see the tag list on a post before they watch the video, as the tag list on a typical phone display is under the content and any comments rather than a sidebar on a wide display like on a desktop/laptop. If the user is on a desktop/laptop, chances are they're either at home or if they're on a laptop or even a tablet in public, then they may be using headphones. Not always, but likely. It makes me wonder if being in the director category would even be useful or not. I want your thoughts on whether these tags should be meta or director, and part of this relates to the below point.

3. Aliasing/Implications. For the tags currently in the BUR I was thinking the list could be edited to something like this:

alias audio_warning -> sound_warning
alias ear_rape -> loud_sound_warning
alias music_warning -> music (As FlowerSylveon proposed, makes sense to me)
alias volume_warning -> loud_sound_warning
*
imply sound_warning -> sound
imply loud_sound_warning -> sound
category sound_warning -> director
category loud_sound_warning -> director
*

These last 4 lines are what I'm a little unsure of and is why this point relates to the above tag category thought. You might be already thinking "why aren't you just implying loud_sound_warning to sound_warning" which I thought of. There are 2 paths for this I want some opinions on:

Potential Path A: If we keep sound_warning and loud_sound_warning in the director category, would having an implication for loud_sound_warning to sound_warning be "too much" for the director category if both of them are going to be there? It may seem like it's cluttering it up a little bit unnecessarily for something that isn't actually a director being in that category, so maybe this path should not do this implication chain and instead have both tags imply sound separately from each other. I think it would be fine with one or the other, but idk about both unless an uploader/tagger specifically wants to put both themselves. If you think it's ok to have both in the category with the implication chain instead, let me know. The 4 bolded lines between the asterisks in the BUR quote above is written with this path shown.

Potential Path B: If we instead put sound_warning and loud_sound_warning in the META category, then I could see a potential implication chain of loud_sound_warning -> sound_warning -> sound not being such a big deal, since it's "out of the way" from the director category anyways and it would actually be in the category where it technically fits better, although not serving its originally intended "warning" at the top of the list anymore.

Any thoughts about all of this? What are your ideas for these tags? I may need to go back to some posts I edited and undo some changes if we're all ok with the new definitions, but that can easily be done.

Updated

dfY6C

Privileged

I really hate to be a bother about this but I would like to know if anyone has anything against or something to add about the new changes that I went over in the last reply. At the very least, I have some affirmation from Bahufaru and Jelloponies with them being ok with the first point based on the Discord conversation about this, then outside of that people were using the tag before in that way which seems to suggest that's generally what people want from the sound_warning tag. The second and third points have not been discussed at all though, and I want to be sure that this is being done right with the new changes and is generally acceptable to everyone.

For the moment, I have changed the main BUR in the original post to have "path A" from the reply above but I'm welcome to discussing any other changes if there are any concerns about this. If people find this acceptable, I will write a new wiki page for sound_warning based on Bahufaru's definition.

Updated

sergalbutt

Janitor

I think with your new changes, its something more agreeable overall, so I changed my vote to a 👍

dfY6C

Privileged

The new wiki definitions have been posted at sound_warning and loud_sound_warning. Feel free to edit them of course if you think something is off.

One note I wanted to add is that some lines in this BUR became redundant and needed to be removed, it doesn't functionally change what we all agreed upon. I just wanted to be transparent about that, and those changes are:

  • imply sound_warning -> sound had to be removed because FlowerSylveon's sound BUR has this exact line as well. Having both would've created a conflict/error with the system come approval time so I opted to remove mine to prevent that. Since both BURs are right next to each other on the request list, chances are most likely both would be approved at basically the same time, making this a non-issue.
  • The category changes for sound_warning and loud_sound_warning were removed because I had already changed the tag type for loud_sound_warning when I first posted this BUR, because it was a new and unlocked tag but sound_warning had been locked and I wasn't able to change it at the time and I wanted to see if the director category was agreeable. Since the original post, I was promoted to Privileged status and what I think came with that was that I was given the ability to change the category on certain locked tags, which let me change sound_warning to director. This allows both tags to serve their warning purpose at the top of the tag list now while the rest of the BUR waits for approval.